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| Mon June 20 2011 12:14:28 |
eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get RefundsBy: Ina Steiner |
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Dear Ina, eBay Sellers be aware when a buyer files credit card dispute through PayPal & PayPal reverses payment for item to Card Holder, buyer ends up with both full refund & item. eBay & PayPal policy does not require buyer to show proof that item is returned to seller. I have had 2 items stolen from me this way. Buyer received $670.00 refund for my item, refused to return item & then listed item for sale on their eBay site. I have filed formal complaint, all can be documented and eBay has done nothing. Unsigned |
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| Comments (32) | Permalink |
 eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
| by: wire10ga |
| Mon Jun 20 13:00:24 2011 |
| If is it on Ebay - Return the favor, and leave low stars as well. |
| eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
 by: Ming the Merciless |
| Mon Jun 20 15:18:49 2011 |
| 1. Quickly collect AND preserve all relevant documentation. 2. Call the detective division of your local police department and file a credit card fraud case this buyer. |
| eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
| by: MR ME |
| Mon Jun 20 15:24:53 2011 |
| In most businesses "NO RETURNS" means NO Returns, sale final. In eBay-land NO returns means buyer keeps Item and Money ! |
| eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
| by: Unlucky Sap Too |
| Mon Jun 20 15:35:02 2011 |
| We too lost almost $1,000 on the exact same scam which Ebay supports and seems to encourage. Small wonder we are working our butts off to transition away from Ebay and onto Ruby Lane. May Ebay and JD burn in Hell! |
| eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
| by: George |
| Mon Jun 20 15:41:07 2011 |
| You
need to do more than file a complaint, you need to take LEGAL action
and file a police report in their town/city for FRAUD and THEFT BY
DECEPTION. I would also take them to court. Most people do not do this because of the travel expenses but when someone purposely defrauds you, you CAN and almost every court WILL give punitive damages and allow you to get the travel expenses on top of interest on the money and court costs. Of course if they also SOLD YOUR merchandise you can get them for FENCING stolen goods and if ebay and paypal have been made aware of it and refuse to do anything about it it they can become accessories after the fact. Until people start holding these scammers and ebay and paypal accountable NOTHING is going to change and these types of crimes are going to get worse. |
| eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
| by: reader 0620 |
| Mon Jun 20 15:47:47 2011 |
| I
would be curious to know how many of our municipal,state, and federal
resources are going towards cleaning up after ebay and paypal's shoddy
policies and customer service? Why should taxpayers subsidize this billion dollar corp? |
| eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
| by: Tex |
| Mon Jun 20 16:17:07 2011 |
| call the police and file a criminal complaint. sue them in small claims. |
| eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
| by: anyone out there |
| Mon Jun 20 16:57:17 2011 |
| Police will take the report BUT they definately have more important things to do then bother with it. |
| eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
| by: Ron |
| Mon Jun 20 19:58:54 2011 |
| I think that you definitely need to file a small claims lawsuit. And I would co-name eBay/Paypal as they are complicit in this. It's pretty outrageous and amounts to conversion. I don't see how you can lose if you have all of the documentation. |
| eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
| by: Donkey |
| Mon Jun 20 20:34:16 2011 |
| Buy it back with a million dollar bid. Then file a chargeback/recovery. |
| eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
 by: Philip Cohen Web Site |
| Mon Jun 20 21:19:42 2011 |
| The
problem with any payment via PreyPal sourced from a credit card is that
PreyPal has no interest in defending the seller from a charge back: too
much trouble for them, and the enormous amount of extra staff that
would be required to deal with such charge-backs (genuine or fraudulent)
would eat into their profits, which eBay currently desperately needs.
If the credit card charge is reversed, the simplest answer for PreyPal
is to also reverse the charge to the seller. It’s so simple: the
computer algorithm does it all: no human intervention is required. The
end result is that PreyPal effectively is complicit in and knowingly
facilitates such fraud on sellers. All a merchant needs to know about the clunky PayPal, at: http://forums.auctionbytes.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=165263 What buyers should know about the criminal activities of eBay, at: http://forums.auctionbytes.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=23540 Enron / eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking. |
| eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
| by: Anne |
| Tue Jun 21 02:36:13 2011 |
| There is a distinct difference between a claim filed through Ebay and one filed through PayPal. With PayPal, if you follow the Seller Protection rules it will protect you in a case like this one. Sometimes it takes longer than it should to get your money back, but it can be done. I've done it myself several times. But you have to follow the PayPal Seller protection rules. A claim filed through Ebay is a whole different thing. You have no protection and I know of several sellers in the same boat as this OP. When Ebay announced that they were going to start handling claims they said how much better things were going to be for sellers. No more returns for buyer's remorse, no more returns for SNAD when the buyer complaints were clearly stated in the listing, etc. Well I guess you can say they have lived up to their word on this on. I know of several sellers that the buyer did not have to return the item and Ebay allowed the refund. |
| eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
| by: Philip Cohen |
| Tue Jun 21 05:05:04 2011 |
| How
else does eBay allow a refund except via PreyPal; if you have elected
to receives your funds via PreyPal, then surely your contract for the
transmission of those funds to you is with PreyPal, not the eBafia. What
right does the eBafia have to usurp your contract with PreyPal. Don’t
tell me; I’m sure it is covered somewhere in the convoluted, all
responsibility avoiding, eBafia/PreyPal UAs. Oh, go on, just for fun, do
supply a reference to the section in the relevant UA anyway. … All a merchant needs to know about the clunky PayPal, at: http://forums.auctionbytes.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=165263 What all buyers should know about the criminal activities of eBay, at: http://forums.auctionbytes.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=23540 Enron / eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking. |
| eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
| by: Ebay 11 Year Seller |
| Tue Jun 21 06:48:37 2011 |
| I
have been actively selling on Ebay for 11 years. Full time since 2005. I
have approx 4000 transactions a year. My average selling price is $115
and I do sell laptops and other $600+ items. I have have maybe 2 or 3 chargebacks a year. I have only had 5 not as decribed and recently last December Not REcieved. This Not Received showed FedEx delivered without signature and Ebay sided with me. I also ship postal to Canada approx 20 per month. If you dot your i's and cross your T's and follow policy. You will be OK.. |
| eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
| by: MsFrugaLady Web Site |
| Tue Jun 21 07:55:32 2011 |
| If the buyer is not in your State/City vicinity, a small court claim cannot be filed, feasibly. Buyer won't travel to your State/City Court. |
| eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
 by: Tula |
| Tue Jun 21 08:53:55 2011 |
| I had once chargeback attempt via Paypal and they found in my favor, since I had plenty of documentation. It was for a very small amount - less than $10 - but I had emails and copies of the attempt the person made at an INR before trying to claim unauthorized credit card use. The burden is definitely on the seller to get and keep all documentation for transactions. |
| eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
| by: R,B. |
| Tue Jun 21 09:06:40 2011 |
| I to had a large ticket item charged back through PayPal not my Pal.. I followed all the paypal seller protection rules, had the item profrssionaly packed at a USP store & insured. Needless to say.Paypal ruled againt me & to mention UPS inc was just bad...NO more Paypal & no more UPS on my part They BOTH SUCK |
| eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
by: Pandora  |
| Tue Jun 21 10:07:57 2011 |
| also
you must call and call again until you get to the correct person. it is
tedious but so far it has worked for us. Try getting to the safe harbor
division they are in Utah. there you will at least find people who care
and can put you in touch with the right people. it is not easy to get
there but be firm but not insulting with whomever you have on the phone.
If you get no where end the call and call again. by all means be nice to the folks on the phone it is not their fault. even if they are jerks be nice as your electronic file is easily marked as not a nice person. |
| eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
| by: JohnGermaine |
| Tue Jun 21 12:03:36 2011 |
| This theft of our items has been allowed for quite some time. It's why I left eBay in the first place, when they allowed our items to be stolen from us. Call the police, you have been robbed and file a report as soon as you can. Print out all communications and take them with you to the police station, make copies for them of course, and include them with your report. Why eBay is allowed to let a third party steal our items is beyond me and needed to have been stopped at it's inception. It should have always been no return - no refund. |
| eBay Allows Buyers to Keep Items and Get Refunds |
| by: AlBeSure |
| Tue Jun 21 13:49:39 2011 |
| If
the Buyer was in the same country-USA-then you would have leverage
against the buyer. As in no refund until the item is returned. You can
file complaints and open cases with feebay and paypal. Use the system to
your advantage. Defend your rights as a Seller and do not give the
stuff away. Since the buyer was in another country, it is a different story. You cannot prove that the item was delivered if you used USPS Int’l First Class Mail and therefore the buyer can state that he did not receive the item. There is nothing that you can do per the new feebay rules except to refund the jerk and take the loss. That way he jerky buyer CANNOT leave you bad feedback. Hopefully you did not lose too much in the process. However if the buyer is stupid enough to state that he has received the item, then you can show that proof to Paypal and feebay CS. Requesting a conference call from Paypal to ebay will usually end in your favor. |
We’re increasing the time for buyers to file a merchandise dispute (Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described) from 45 days to 180 days. All references in the User Agreement to “Opening a Dispute within 45 days” have been updated to reflect “Opening a Dispute within 180 days.”
Ebay took from me about $200 in fees and forced me to refund money for a pair of shoes that I sold 3 months ago because a guy suddenly changed his mind. With their new policy of 90 MONEY BACK GURANTEED for the Holiday, it's a total BS. A person if buys a gently used item can wear stuff then return it after 90 days and if you won't even accept a return they will just deduct the $$ from your account. Also that sellers cannot leave negative feedback to buyers or make a note that should be addressed also! That's very corrupt way to do business.But if a 90-day return policy for new clothes and shoes is bad, a six-month return policy for antique items is arguably worse. In response to the proposed PayPal policy change, the Vintage Fashion Guild posted a petition onto Change.org asking that the sellers of vintage and antique items be exempted from the 180-day return window, because:
Vintage and antique goods are delicate and fragile and often require careful handling and storage. It is important that purchases be opened, inspected, and then properly stored within a reasonable time-frame to ensure they remain in the condition they were sent. Not doing so can compromise the goods and even cause them to deteriorate. This new policy removes the sense of urgency in taking care of a vintage or antique item soon after its delivery and allows too long of a time window for the item to sit in its packaging and potentially become damaged by rough handling, extreme temperature changes, etc. Simply put, Paypal's new policy will be overly burdensome and possibly disastrous to those who sell vintage and antique goods online. To expect a seller to refund for claims for vintage and antique goods that have been out of their possession for 180 days is unreasonable. ... we formally request that these type of sales continue to be governed by PayPal's current 45 day policy which is fair to both buyers and sellers.PayPal's new return policy does exempt certain types of purchases, including real estate, businesses, industrial machinery and “intangible items, including digital goods.” But it says nothing about clothing, shoes, or secondhand items of any age. The policy's much shorter “seller protection” says only:
PayPal Seller protection is protection we provide Sellers from Claims, Chargebacks, or Reversals that are based on:
Unauthorized Transaction or
Item Not Received
PayPal Seller protection is available for eligible payments from buyers in any country. However, if you sell or market to buyers outside the U.S., please read the PayPal Buyer Protection policy and PayPal Seller Protection policy of the countries in which you are selling (accessible via the “Legal” or “Legal Agreements” footer on most PayPal site pages) as these policies will apply to you as a Payment Recipient or seller.
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